We spoke about how it lies and disinformation could poison the 20 for U.S. election.

My neck to guess this is is -- it is already getting off to a rough start.

Donald Trump has launched his campaign in Waco, Texas.

A place best known for its notorious cold, the Branch Davidians, who lived there, and the botched federal seizure.

An event that lasted 51 days and left 82 of the cult members dead.

Trump could have been using this charged vocation to Jen -- send a coded message to.

>> Here we are, having this conversation 30 years after what happened in Waco, Texas.

There is a re-examination of that in the current political context.

For people who might not have been alive then, or are not familiar with the standoff in Waco, what happened in those 51 days?

>> I was in grade school, it's an important event in American history.

It was a Christian sect living outside Waco, Texas for decades.

They came under investigation I the ATF because they were suspected of manufacturing machine guns illegally.

The ATF conceived of a disastrously botched initial raid in February of 1993.

This was during the Clinton administration, on the right there was widespread fear of the federal government and gun-control, the NRA was sounding the alarm.

The ATF raid went wrong.

It resulted in a shootout, four agents were killed, two members of the Branch Davidians.

What happened was a seizure that lasted through March and April 19.

During which there was a major American news story, helicopters from CNN, the whole media circus that is common now.

The FBI executed a second botched raid that was meant to be nonviolent, but ended up being another shootout and a fire that killed more than 70 people at once from the Branch Davidians.

It was a tragedy, is an example of botched operations and overreach of the federal government.

It also became a cultural touchstone on the right, especially for militant groups, it was a scare story of the danger of the federal government and what it was willing to do in the hands of a democratic administration against gun owning conservatives.

>> It was also women and children in the compound.

Why is it that that raid resonates and is one of those core fears for groups like the Oath Keepers, the Three Percenters and militant national organizations.

>> I have spoken with the leader of the Toth keepers about Waco.

He was not involved in any political movement at the time.

He was a libertarian minded conservative, and he watched at it, it affected him.

For him, it was never that the branch of were heroes.

-- Branch Davidians were heroes.

For them the stories are about the bad guys.

How they were demonized for being outside the cultural mainstream, how the media and government made them appear like threatening outsiders.

And the basis of this -- was the fact they were Christian and hard mind gun owners.

>> I should remind our audience that two years after, Timothy McVeigh took matters into his own hands and he was inspired by what happened at Waco.

>> Timothy McQuay -- it McVeigh was a gulf war veteran.

He went on to Waco during the seizure.

He handed out pamphlets supporting the Branch Davidians.

He saw it clearly through an anti-government lens.

When he saw the violence happen on TV, it triggered him, he pretrade her as a preview of the coming fight with the government.

When he carried out the Oklahoma city, it was on the anniversary of the Waco attacks.

He was explicit in saying it was one of the reasons he took out the bombing.

>> Here we are, while there are documentaries on Netflix about this, another moment in our political history is that Former President Trump chooses to launch his reelection campaign in Waco.

Significant?

>> To me, yes, for someone who covers -- any connection to what happened in Waco in 1993.

If I were someone who was a member of the O's keepers, and I saw he had picked to that place to launch the first official rally of his campaign, it would send a message to me, that he was on my side.

Just something Trump has been Sicknick going without holding a rally at Waco.

It was a message he sent to his followers on January 6.

Members of the Oath Keepers haven't been convicted of suspicious conspiracy form generates six.

They thought they were following Trump's directives, they thought they were in communication with Trump.

I have noticed Trump speaking openly in the terms and frames of a militant right, militant groups.

He is portraying the bottle as existential, the government against Democrats.

The choice of Waco, it is sending a signal that this is to direction his campaign is headed.

He opened that rally, he did not mention Waco, but he played a rendition of the national anthem that was sung by a choir of people who had been in prison at six.

And playing images of the riot at the Capitol.

A pretty clear message of where he stands.

>> There were images of the Capitol insurrection playing at the rally in Waco connecting these dots for people.

Let me beat skeptical.

Our be reading too much into this?

He doesn't mention Waco, is this conveniently the airport hangar between Dallas and Houston.

It's there.

>> His campaign has expressly denied that is why they chose Waco.

I just know militant groups, understanding how important Waco is in their worldview.

Whatever he intended is besides the point, the messages there, no matter what.

He is intentionally saying to his followers, this campaign is an existential struggle against the government as controlled by Democrats.

They are coming after you, we are standing in their way.

It has been in existentially themed campaign from Trump, that is playing into the messaging.

It is something that we should understand the context.

>> This feeds into the larger conspiracy of a new world order from Waco to a stolen election.

Explain that.

>> The sentiments of the right have believed for decades about the new world order.

The basic form of that theory is elite interests are trying to establish a global dictatorship and are trying to undermine American democracy.

It sounds like it is out's, but you can see how it can blend into different versions of politics in the United States.

Some versions of the conspiracy are explicitly racist, some are the control of corporations, money and politics.

It is something that has been part and parcel of the militant movement before the 1990's.

Waco played into that conspiracy theory.

Fast-forward to 2020, without saying world order conspiracy theory, if you look at the press confidence -- conference Rudy Giuliani held, the Trump campaigns official narrative of how the election was stolen, it is about the elite global interest inspiring with elites in America and politicians to steal an election.

It was very alarming to see that on a national scale.

It had been confined to the fringes for decades.

It was drastic, sometimes violent action that trumps followers took that day.

>> Are there parallels between what happened after Waco and what is happening now, in terms of whether these groups are going underground because of the increased scrutiny by federal agencies?

>> In the immediate aftermath of Waco, motioned activity surged, because people were so alarmed.

It wasn't until after Oklahoma City that federal investigative pressure focused on militia style groups and there was a public outcry.

Then you saw the participation in militia groups decrease.

I have the sense that they are still believers in Trump, no one has been convinced it is the wrong thinking.

They are conscious, there is a lot of investigative pressure from the government, they are keeping their heads down.

They are waiting to see whether this will blow over, there will be an opportunity without fear, it's very reasonable for them to be watching the presidential race and wondering would happen if Trump were to win.

He has suggested he would pardon people for January 6.

He is hoping -- to the people who are in prison, he is on their side.

It is all around a wait-and-see approach right now.

>> You have said that movements like this are filled with people who think of the long game, tactical patients.

>> I think if you look at a group like the Oath Keepers and other militant groups, and you understand they don't think of themselves as anti-government or extremists, they think of themselves as the rightful authority.

They think they should be in charge.

They felt for a time, under the Trump administration, that they were moving towards that.

That Trump is on their side, they have a lot of resistance within government, but they were empowered.

If you think of that, that is the mindset that encourages the long view.

It encourages participation in the political process work helps , and using other means to leverage power that you can.

It is a struggle that has been happening since the 1990's when the groups first came into being.

They are content to see him get political power again.

What would be the result if Trump were to come back into power.

I don't think they would consider that, whatever the political havoc right now, that's the end of the story for them.

>> There seems to be a distinction you are drawing here, that it is not just antigovernment, it is anti-Democrat.

>> These groups have been antigovernment, I don't think it is right now.

It is more accurate to say they want to be the government.

They are not -- they are afraid of federal power in the hands of Democrats.

If you think about the both keepers and what they were asking for on January 6, that would be a massive use of federal power.

But that is in abuse of federal power.

We should consider the enemy is not the government but it is Democrats in control of the government.

That's what motivates them.

>> Do you think that government agencies have learned from Waco, from what happened in January 6, how to stop this from happening again?

>> The government after Waco did tons of internal investigations.

It is obvious that, whatever the Branch Davidians did wrong, that over-the-top aggressive government response was not helpful.

I think there is an awareness that sort of drastic overreach creates problems that last for decades.

It is influencing politics today.

I don't know how that translates to the present moment, other than saying, you hope that anyone in power realizes that it is usually much more risky in the long term to use too much power then too little.

That is a lesson they have learned from past incidences, and the government has been to strike a balance with.

>> You so much for joining us.